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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:21 pm

Christianboy wrote:
Who's will is it that I am not a christian?

that isn’t really a pertinent question. i mean once adam sinned, our freewill is gone. all we know now is sin and sin only. however, a pertinent question would be “Who’s will is it for us to be saved?”
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:19 pm

I have heard this agruement over and over... I have talked to older people, my pastor, my dad (a youth pastor) I have heard people all over talk about this!!! Ya know what I think the best answer to the how thing on freewill, or chosen is... "yes"... I don't think its a huge deal to me so much anymore... I know the Lord tells me to share the gospel with others... I know I'm going to be with christ some day... What else is there for me to know? Freewill, chosen... either way, I'm going to the same place, and going to do what the Lord tells me too...
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:34 pm

chuckm wrote:
Christianboy wrote:
Who's will is it that I am not a christian?

that isn’t really a pertinent question. i mean once adam sinned, our freewill is gone. all we know now is sin and sin only. however, a pertinent question would be “Who’s will is it for us to be saved?”

If we don't have freewill, who's will is it? If it is God's will to save some of you and not others, then he is being unjust.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:59 pm

Christianboy wrote:
chuckm wrote:
Christianboy wrote:
Who's will is it that I am not a christian?

that isn’t really a pertinent question. i mean once adam sinned, our freewill is gone. all we know now is sin and sin only. however, a pertinent question would be “Who’s will is it for us to be saved?”

If we don't have freewill, who's will is it? If it is God's will to save some of you and not others, then he is being unjust.

The God who created you is being unjust huh? how bout that. He isn't being unjust. Everythin He does is for His glory and His will. There isn't anything unjust about it. And i can tell you right now that is if it would've been up to me to either choose him or reject him, then i would be on the road to destruction no doubt about it. When Adam was created he had his own freewill, and what did he do with it??? thats right, he disobeyed God and sinned. And i don't really care what any of you say, but if the choice was left up to any of us, we wouldn't choose him, we would choose sin. Why would a God of everything, a God who knows everything, created everything leave such precious gift up to a sinful, totally wicked and depraved race??? a race he created and knows would not choose him. leaving it up to chance. when he knows very well that we would never ever choose him. So he basically would've been creating us all just to see us all go to hell.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:03 pm

chuckm wrote:
Christianboy wrote:
chuckm wrote:
Christianboy wrote:
Who's will is it that I am not a christian?

that isn’t really a pertinent question. i mean once adam sinned, our freewill is gone. all we know now is sin and sin only. however, a pertinent question would be “Who’s will is it for us to be saved?”

If we don't have freewill, who's will is it? If it is God's will to save some of you and not others, then he is being unjust.

The God who created you is being unjust huh? how bout that. He isn't being unjust. Everythin He does is for His glory and His will. There isn't anything unjust about it. And i can tell you right now that is if it would've been up to me to either choose him or reject him, then i would be on the road to destruction no doubt about it. When Adam was created he had his own freewill, and what did he do with it??? thats right, he disobeyed God and sinned. And i don't really care what any of you say, but if the choice was left up to any of us, we wouldn't choose him, we would choose sin. Why would a God of everything, a God who knows everything, created everything leave such precious gift up to a sinful, totally wicked and depraved race??? a race he created and knows would not choose him. leaving it up to chance. when he knows very well that we would never ever choose him. So he basically would've been creating us all just to see us all go to hell.

You didn't answer my question. By your logic the wholwe world will accept christ over time, which is far from true. What do you mean we wouldn't chose him? Where in the bible does it say we don't have free will? No where... You are going on speculation of a flawed theology. You could not be more wrong...
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:49 pm

Christianboy wrote:
chuckm wrote:
Christianboy wrote:
chuckm wrote:
Christianboy wrote:
Who's will is it that I am not a christian?

that isn’t really a pertinent question. i mean once adam sinned, our freewill is gone. all we know now is sin and sin only. however, a pertinent question would be “Who’s will is it for us to be saved?”

If we don't have freewill, who's will is it? If it is God's will to save some of you and not others, then he is being unjust.

The God who created you is being unjust huh? how bout that. He isn't being unjust. Everythin He does is for His glory and His will. There isn't anything unjust about it. And i can tell you right now that is if it would've been up to me to either choose him or reject him, then i would be on the road to destruction no doubt about it. When Adam was created he had his own freewill, and what did he do with it??? thats right, he disobeyed God and sinned. And i don't really care what any of you say, but if the choice was left up to any of us, we wouldn't choose him, we would choose sin. Why would a God of everything, a God who knows everything, created everything leave such precious gift up to a sinful, totally wicked and depraved race??? a race he created and knows would not choose him. leaving it up to chance. when he knows very well that we would never ever choose him. So he basically would've been creating us all just to see us all go to hell.

You didn't answer my question. By your logic the wholwe world will accept christ over time, which is far from true. What do you mean we wouldn't chose him? Where in the bible does it say we don't have free will? No where... You are going on speculation of a flawed theology. You could not be more wrong...

i dont even know why im discussing this with you because you dont believe in the bible or what not, you're just some agnostic. anywho where in the world did u get from what i said that the whole world would eventually come to christ?? i never implied that or even said that or had that in thought, because that is sooo far from the truth. where in the bible does it say we have freewill?? and it's not speculation it's in the bible so it's truth and fact.

and verses where it says that God chooses us or it's of his will not ours or where it talks about his elect, i'll list a few.
Matthew 24:31; John 15:16; Roman 9:15-16,18; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:4-6
there are afew of the verses i have listed.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:02 am

oh and christianboy, if you know the bible as well as u like to think you do, then you would know that God chose the nation of Israel, not the other way around. and in your mind would that be unfair and unjust, because he chose only Israel and not some other nation or nations???
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:52 am

chuckm wrote:
nope. there is no such thing as freewill

Quote :
In life there are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. It's when we look back and see the choices we could've made that give us the illusion of control. If you had done things differently, it wouldn't be you. It would be someone else, asking a different set of questions.

Is this what you believe? (This was quoted from something else, mind you.)
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:56 am

Guys,Lets not start off the new year like this please No .I feel like this is leading to a huge argument. :
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:06 am

Yes, don't get me started. I love to argue. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:09 am

Vox wrote:
Yes, don't get me started. I love to argue. Razz
You are very funny. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:11 am

Vox wrote:
chuckm wrote:
nope. there is no such thing as freewill

Quote :
In life there are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. It's when we look back and see the choices we could've made that give us the illusion of control. If you had done things differently, it wouldn't be you. It would be someone else, asking a different set of questions.

Is this what you believe? (This was quoted from something else, mind you.)

alright you guys are either to ignorant or arent really reading my posts. first off i said a little bit ago that im not referring to everyday choices. And that quote has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:38 pm

Vox wrote:

Quote :
In life there are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. It's when we look back and see the choices we could've made that give us the illusion of control. If you had done things differently, it wouldn't be you. It would be someone else, asking a different set of questions.

Is this what you believe? (This was quoted from something else, mind you.)

chuckm wrote:
alright you guys are either to ignorant or arent really reading my posts. first off i said a little bit ago that im not referring to everyday choices. And that quote has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

Actually, it does go along with what you said in a way. You say that we can't decide whether or not we come to Christ. So our fate is already laid out for us, I guess? So even if I want to escape hell, I can't if I am not chosen because I cannot decide. So basically it's "nothing but a straight line".

I've heard of people who have desired to come to Christ all their lives, but because of election, they thought that they hadn't been chosen. One man was on his death bed, desiring to soon live with God forever, but he thought that he wasn't chosen. It was then that someone told him to not let the idea of election ever get in the way of him coming to Christ. It was then that he was saved. It's easy to let ideas and theologies get in the way of us serving and loving Christ. I don't understand everything about election nor am I going to pretend that I do. However, I do understand that it should never get in the way of someone coming to Christ who desires to come to Him.

And some of us may know, or think we know, all the "stuff" of God's Word. But while knowledge is good, it's not enough.

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"
-Matthew 7:22-23

As followers of Christ, we should never let something like this drive us apart or cause conflict or tension within the body of Christ. And it should especially not keep us apart from Christ. I believe that God asks so much more of us than what I have been reading and also participating in on this site. It's great to discuss differing views, but when it causes arguments, I think we should think about our true motives in the discussions. If we feel that we have to constantly defend ourselves, well, maybe we shouldn't post. Who are we trying to defend here? I hope God.

Just some things that I hope we'll all think about.

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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:22 pm

you're not going to want to escape hell if the Lord isn't working in you. ANd if the Lord is workign in you then there is no way that hell is even a factor now.

Do you really seriously and truly believe that God, the Lord of everything, who made everything is completely and totally, without a doubt completely Sovereign?
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:28 pm

chuckm wrote:

i dont even know why im discussing this with you because you dont believe in the bible or what not, you're just some agnostic. anywho where in the world did u get from what i said that the whole world would eventually come to christ?? i never implied that or even said that or had that in thought, because that is sooo far from the truth. where in the bible does it say we have freewill?? and it's not speculation it's in the bible so it's truth and fact.

and verses where it says that God chooses us or it's of his will not ours or where it talks about his elect, i'll list a few.
Matthew 24:31; John 15:16; Roman 9:15-16,18; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:4-6
there are afew of the verses i have listed.

No, I don't believe in the bible, but I know it. I am trying to show you how dead wrong you are, even in christian thinking. And I am not agnostic, thank you very much, I am very religious. You are saying there is not free will, and it is up to God to direcct us. So, unless God is unjust, he would bring all people to him.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:30 pm

chuckm wrote:

alright you guys are either to ignorant or arent really reading my posts. first off i said a little bit ago that im not referring to everyday choices. And that quote has nothing to do with the topic being discussed.

First off, you used the wrong form of too when you said "to ignorant". Learn Grammar before you start typing how people are ignorant. I don't always get along with the people here, but they are far from ignorant. You, my friend, are a pompous fool.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:27 pm

hahaha thank you for the grammar lesson. oh and God is God so he created us for his glory and whatever he wants to do with HIS creation He can. we shouldn't say that he is unjust when He is the one who created us.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:31 pm

oh and as for the pompous fool thing, lighten up.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:05 pm

I belive that God called me to himself, and I responded to his call. But regardless of what I believe in this I love Jesus, I accept what he has done for me. Isn't that enough? Why do we have to debate about something that only God fully knows and understands...
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:09 pm

oh and btw that video really made me think!!! I love you
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:35 pm

I believe like beautiful eyes , God called me and I responded.


Last edited by xdreamingHisdreamsx on Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:01 pm

hahahah thats exactly what i thought!
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:01 pm

Nice, so you want me gone because I don't believe in the bible... I enjoy religious discussions, I am also a member of a muslim, buddhist, and taoist forums. I love discussing these things, and I do so here. Also, Christ ate dinner with the sinners and outcasts, right? You should be glad to have someone of opposing beliefs here...
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:07 pm

It's not that we don't want you. Christ loves all people, but this site was created for the glory and honor of God. Not the displacement of the body of Christ, which He made to be one.
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PostSubject: Re: A Letter From Hell   Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:13 pm

You seem to want me gone.... I do try to not bash at all. I argue with people if I think they are going over the top. This forum is a place to discuss, and I discuss. I don't see how I am doing any wrong...
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